Kite testing

[Envision]

Over the last year I've done extensive searching for information on KAPing, kites, etc. Very few photos of kites where they can be compared in size and use. I'd like to start a thread here for just that. Having spent much time building recently I had to take a few hours off as it was a beautiful day outside.

I have 3 kites, a "FlowForm 16", "FlowForm 30", and a Into the Wind "Tritan" purchased from Brooxes.com

The models today are myself (blue shirt) and my brother.
Testing in a freshly seeded corn field.

The wind today ranged from about 0-8mph off and on, at one point the FlowForm 30 turned inside out and floated to the ground because the wind simply disappeared. Most of the time there wasn't enough wind to blow a small plastic shopping bag. I'll list information in no particular order.

Flown two kites at a time testing with and without different tail configurations. 400' of line was out per kite.

The FlowForm 16 flew best with two tails, very little pull in this light wind. The FlowForm 30 was most stable with two tails and would lift a 2.5lb pop bottle around 75'. The Tritan lifted the 2.5lb bottle a few hundred feet and just sat steady in the sky, flies the same with/without any tail, but flies at a higher angle without. (bottle located 100' below kite)

The Tritan is a low wind kite and is about this big.
In the photo we're waiting for the wind to pick up so we can pump it up into the clean air, the wind is holding it, but not enough to lift it.



8'-6" x 3'-8" Wind range: 3 to 15 mph

Getting ready to release with another tail configuration. Wind slightly picked up so it would release on its own.



During this photo we had a pull type fish scale hooked to the line. The kite and 2.5lb bottle are both a few hundred feet. The scale read a max of 4lb's of pull. Line at about a 75 degree angle, the kite was almost overflying the bottle. We had to adjust it so it would quit overflying even us without the bottle. The dark streak in the lower right is the kite line.



The Tritan is by far my favorite kite.

The next photo has both the Tritan and FlowForm 30, same length of line on both kites. The Tritan would fly an approximate 15 degrees higher without the tail.



Here, I'm trying to get enough wind into the FlowForm 30 to inflate it while waiting for the wind to pick up again.



(5ft x 6ft) 30sq ft, Recommended wind range for KAP is 7 to 15 mph.

Slight swaying with this tail configuration, a little less than with no tail.



Swapping out the FF30 for the FF16



There just wasn't enough wind to really test the FF16 today, just enough for testing the tails. However, we never did get it to stop swaying side to side, it'll have to be tested in stronger winds.

When we finished up, after walking the kites down there just wasn't enough wind at ground level to keep them afloat. Chris had to run with the kites to get them airborne to compare size of the FF16 and Tritan.



FlowForm 16 is (3.5ft x 4.5ft) 16sq ft, suitable for winds of 8 - 25 mph

We never used the scale on the FF16, wasn't enough pull to bother testing.
When the wind slightly picked up, the max pull we had on the FF30 was 10lbs, and 12lbs on the Tritan. In this wind the Tritan held the 2.5lb bottle tight with very little change in line angle from the ground/bottle/kite. Pretty much about 80 degrees straight through.

Hope you found this useful and we look forward to other contributions.

Troy

[Envision]

I forgot to mention, after we removed the tail from the Tritan, Chris was screwing around and put the tail on the line with the kite in the air. The wind slowly pushed the tail up to the kite, once it got there it must have robbed the Tritan's air because it slowly lowered to the ground while the other kite remained in place. Could be a solution to reduce pull in higher winds.

Troy

[Fairmont]

That sounds fun.

I haven't KAPed in a few weeks because I'm working (slowly) on my kite to reinforce it and redesign the tension lines (they are fraying and I lost tension the last flight, causing loop-d-loops).

Also, I'm finished KAPing in my area. Nothing too interesting to film. My next jaunt will probably be to the city (Atlanta).

Good luck.

[tonystott]

Thanks for the info Troy. I must get cracking and put together something similar about the Rokkaku.

[Frank Stein]

Sounds great Troy!

I want to hear more about your experiences with the Tritan. I am a huge fan of the FF's (have FF8, FF16 and FF30), and was thinking about getting a 60 for the lighter winds. What was the windspeed (approx) when you were flying the Tritan with the 2.5 lb weight? Is the Tritan fully collapsible (no spars), and as easy to take off as a FF? When are you going to put a camera on the line? Come on Troy! I cannot wait to see your KAP pics.

Thanks

Frank

[Envision]

The Tritan has one full width spar that is adjustable for wind conditions. I was amazed it was lifting 2.5lb so easily because the wind on the ground was only enough to slightly blow a plastic grocery bag. EDIT: Barely enough to even lift the FF16.

Next week I'll have a anemometer (wind speed device) strapped in front of a video camera with a altimeter. I'll report the wind increase/temperature in relation to the altitude as well as distance from 'pilot' via GPS and amount of line needed to do so on the FlowForms and the Tritan. If I get a chance later I'll put the spar in the Tritan for a photo.

Troy

[Envision]

More info I had forgotten to add,

I found some 400 lb test black technora line and did some more in depth testing. The reel is contructed of a gokart front spindle, hub with 5/8" bearings, hardened steel sides and aluminum center to prevent it from crushing reeling in under tension. The reel weighs 12lbs, and was anchored to the ground using a long steel stake centered at the back that would allow movement, pivoting of the reel.

Around 7mph winds slightly fluctuating more and less. The tritan had to be pumped up a couple hundred feet into good air to stay aloft, it would not lift any weight.

I attached one of brooxes hangups, a short tether and attached a flowform 30 to the line (a few hundred feet below the first kite). Then let out another hundred or so feet.

Attached a 5lb weight, and lifted it easily. Let up another 100' or so and it was also lifting the reel off the ground.

Keep in mind that 500' in the US is the ceiling for kites. I had approximately 500' - 600' out, but at around a 50 degree angle.

They were just sitting their steady in the wind, on occasion the Tritan would overfly the other kite, turn around and go back into position on its own. The Flowform 30, would on occasion move side to side very slightly and slowly, but the tension from the upper kite kept it in check.

So, using this combination, it easily elevated a 5 lb weight, plus a 12 lb reel. 17 lbs total... Not that its really needed, but proves pretty much anything can be lifted with the right setup for any wind conditions.

The new pendulum design holds the camera from any panning, like a heading hold gyro by using only the line, and has minimal sway.

Reeling in the kite under tension is not recommended, but I designed this to do it. Reeling it in was pretty easy. After the payload was off, I pulled and released the line, the flowform 30 closed up, laid on the main line and made it even easier to pull in.

Troy

[benedict]

Awesome info, Troy!

Mind my asking how long a tether you had between the Hookup and the FF30?

I haven't done any multi-kite flights, but I've got a couple that have enough of a wind range overlap that they could play well together. I wouldn't mind giving that a go this weekend.

Good cautions on the reel (LOVE your design!) I designed mine to be able to take winding under tension as well. I'm not sure I'd do that on a reel I hadn't had a hand in designing, or at least had the opportunity to run the numbers on. More than just knowing that it'll handle it, it's nice to know what the safety margin is in case things don't go as planned.

I've got a Flow Form 8, Flow Form 16, 6' Rokkaku, Fled, and a 9' Dopero. If I get to get out this weekend I'll try setting them all up and getting a side-by-side shot for size comparison.

Glad to see the pictures of the Triton in this thread. I've seen it listed in catalogs and on Brooks's site, but yeah, without seeing it next to another kite it's hard to get a feel for its size.

Tom

[Envision]

Thanks Benedict,

The Tritan is my favorite kite so far. If the winds are higher simply put more bend in the spar, if the flight angle is to high, add a tail. It flies pretty high on its own, if the wind is just right it will maintain nearly vertical tether. Only problem is my pendulum only goes to about 80 degrees.

The weight was 100' or more below the kite, the further from the kite the less motion it will receive. I just used a Broox Hangup, a piece of kite line about 6' long with a swivel on each end to attach the kite mid line.

The reel has 2000' of black technora (generic kevlar), a special find... A handle is on one side, the brake is actually just a carabiner that clamps the handle. It is strong enough with the base that we can jump up and down on it while on end (be sure to set the brake) . Should have taken a picture, it left with a project. It was really built to heavy, we could have propped a car up to change a tire with it.

Troy